Alt-BEAM Archive
Message #10906
To: beam@sgiblab.sgi.com
From: Bob Shannon bshannon@tiac.net
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 09:39:28 -0500
Subject: [alt-beam] Re: BEAM: Tendency toward miniaturization
Robert Morris wrote:
> At 07:46 AM 2/25/00 -0600, Terry Newton wrote:
> >I've heard of that... even studied it and came to the conclusion that
> >FPGA's draw too much power :) But a neural net does not make a brain,
> >it's just a net - processes inputs into outputs. No matter how many
> >millions you pack together it is what it is and no more. Just bigger.
> >And the bigger they are, the longer it takes them to learn.
>
> True, I agree with you there, I could probably heat my apartment with that
> device.
> And I agree that using digital logic for large neural nets will only
> produce more digital logic,
> not a living brain. But if you reduce the size and power requirements and
> use analog circuits
> for the neurons, the possibility for life is much higher.
> I believe that analog circuitry(at least partially) and a robot body is a
> requirement for a
> machine to "become" alive or have a consciousness. This is because a
> digital computer sitting
> on a desk cannot gain any experience or be influenced by the constantly
> changing analog reality
> that we live in.
This is not true.
CPU based robots are often programmed to gain experiance and have their
behaviors altered by their environment.
There is no advantage to analog robot controllers at all.
People seem to be forgetting that Nv circuits simply do not scale like digital
logic does.
>
> This is why I have been interested in BEAM, while not perfect, Nv/Nu
> circuits can be affected
> by the outside environment to a certain extent. What is needed is for
> someone to develop
> a VLSI chip containing large quantities of Nv/Nu circuits in which the RC
> time constants
> can be electronically adjusted and the interconnection between them can be
> changed and
> re changed to any configuration desired. Then I believe using a number of
> these chips, it
> may be possible to see some very lifelike qualities emerging.
Uhh, why not do this with a processor?
>
> To understand a little why I believe a-life is possible, here is a thought
> experiment:
> If we were to take an electronic circuit that acted exactly like a
> biological neuron
> (scientists have done this), scale this down to the size and power
> requirements of
> the real thing and begin to replace the neurons in the human brain with them,
> when would we cease to become a living conscious entity?
> Would it be after the first one, 50%, 99%,!00% ?
> And I guess here is my main point, how would we be able to tell the difference?
Science has never made a reasonably close model of a neuron. In fact, they have
no idea how neurons form useful interconnections to other neurons.
> Robert Morris
>
> P.S. The quantum experiment I talked about is real, I'll see if I can
> find the article if you
> would like.
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