Alt-BEAM Archive
Message #10787
To: beam@sgiblab.sgi.com
From: Terry Newton wtnewton@nc5.infi.net
Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 03:16:21 -0600
Subject: [alt-beam] Re: BEAM: Tendency toward miniaturization
At 07:41 AM 2/22/00 EST, JVernonM@aol.com wrote:
>In a message dated 2/22/00 12:02:19 AM Eastern Standard Time,
>davidperry@geocities.com writes:
>
>> Also, a simple silicon neural net made to achieve a goal - same as us!
>> Personality isn't magically achieved, it is the result of an immensly
>> complex neural net.
>>
>You've just disproved EVERY religious belief known to man. Not to mention,
>claravoiance, telekenisis, distant viewing, premonition, intuition, and
>prophecy.
No disproof in a statement.... no proof in widespread belief (but
perhaps a hint!) This is one of the most important questions facing
science: "Does self-awareness reside within neurons and connections?"
The answer as far as I can determine is "no, it does not."
Virtually every religion teaches that the "soul" is a separate
entity apart from the body, not that I care to discuss religion
but it is a trend I find hard to ignore. And there is scientific
evidence that this is the case.
> This is something that fascinates me about robotics. Are we more
>than the sum of our parts?
depends on the level it is considered at. What parts count while
summing? The unseen/unknowable parts too?
> Or, can a machine be built that can reproduce
>every facet of what it is to be alive?
Only some aspects, definitely not every.
> To be sentient and aware of things
>greater than ones self? Will a robot one day look to the stars and wonder,
>"Is this all that I am? Is there no more?"
Nope. This is why...
Present in great numbers in every living plant and animal cell are
these little things called "microtubules", which form a kind of
nervous system for the cell itself. These things are why a simple
single-celled animal possessing no brain or any processing facilities
in the classical sense of a "network" can nevertheless seek food and
avoid predators. All they are are tiny random decision-makers but
the presence of a great many of them together causes a gross quantum
effect to appear, consciousness. According to prevailing theory anyway.
Personally I think of them as "cosmic receivers" that allow our souls
to interface with our bodies, and it is the soul that provides things
like personality, intelligence and infinite memory.
Irregardless of what function is assigned to the microtubules, to
duplicate the effects we see in higher animals one would need not
only billions of neurons but also for each one of those billions
to contain thousands if not millions of those quantum eightballs.
But there is hope for robotists! Even though it is far beyond our
technology to package together the number of elements required for
consiousness (not that we'd even want to try!) the addition of just
a few of these things can be beneficial to a robot's behavior.
Perhaps even micro-consiousness, but we must not make the goal
too high or it'll just be impossible. What I'm talking about is
a "fighting chance". Consider - a deterministic machine, one whose
"thoughts" are determined strictly by algorithm or connections,
MUST output a specific response for a specific input. On the other
hand, a non-deterministic machine that uses say zener noise has
no such limitation, and although no guarantee of anything at least
it has the possibility of choosing a response that might work better
than an algorithmic guess. Mathematically it kind of works out the
same, except the deterministic machine is guaranteed not to perform
above a certain level, while the non-deterministic machine has the
possibility of getting lucky and doing better than chance. Or worse.
> Great stuff!
Yea, hope I didn't get too deep with it...
Much has been written about the role of microtubules, a net-search
on the word should turn up much material to consider.
Terry Newton
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