Alt-BEAM Archive
Message #09337
To: beam@sgiblab.sgi.com
From: "Travis D." beam_bot@yahoo.com
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 14:28:14 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [alt-beam] Re: D1
could you post that in the other format too?
--- Wilf Rigter wrote:
> You mean:
>
> <>
>
> regards
>
> wilf
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Bob Shannon [SMTP:bshannon@tiac.net]
> > Sent: Monday, January 17, 2000 4:30 PM
> > To: beam@sgiblab.sgi.com
> > Subject: Re: D1
> >
> > Wilf Rigter wrote:
> >
> > > Hey Bob,
> > >
> > > What's a smart cap circuit?
> > >
> > > regards
> > >
> > > wilf
> >
> > The Smart Cap circuit is my solution to the D1
> dilemma, I developed it for
> >
> > Chiu's first photovore contest to add long term
> behavior abilities to the
> > basic
> > photopopper design.
> >
> > I wish I had an electronic schematic, but...
> >
> > All this circuit uses is a NPN phototransistor, a
> PNP switch, and a single
> >
> > resistor.
> >
> > The NPN phototransistor is connected across the
> base and emitter of the
> > PNP switch transistor, with the phototransistors
> collector going to the
> > PNP's emitter. This connection is also the
> positive supply line.
> >
> > The emitter of the NPN phototransistor is
> connected to the base of the
> > PNP, and
> > also to a bias resistor to ground. For the common
> Radio Shack NPN
> > phototransistor (2 lead type, looks like an LED) a
> value of 5.1 K seems to
> > work
> > well. Adjusting this bias resistor sets turn-on
> point, and adding a cap
> > can control
> > any hysteresis if desired (you can also play with
> the base lead of 3
> > terminal phototransistors to get the same effect).
> >
> > The load connects between the PNP transistors
> collector and ground.
> > Any load will do, so long as its within the PNP
> transistors abilities.
> >
> > The only leakage current (very low) flows while
> light (and energy) is
> > available. I find this seems to work better than
> circuits with a dark
> > leakage
> > current (low-side NPN switch with cds photocell).
> >
> > In Vore-n-more, I used this circuit to dump a 1.5
> F gold cap through 75
> > ohms
> > and into the capacitor bank of a photopopper. The
> 1.5 F cap was charged
> > through a schottkey diode from the photovores 3733
> solar cell, through a
> > small set of 'floater' solar cells in series.
> >
> > The idea here is that the main solar cell will
> charge the 1.5 F cap to a
> > bit
> > below the photopopper's turn on point, but that
> does the bot no good when
> > the
> > lights go out. I used 1381-J triggers, so I
> needed the 1.5F cap to charge
> > to around
> > 3 volts or so to have a useful energy reserve. A
> pair of tiny AM-1437
> > cells do this trick nicely.
> >
> > Another feature of this setup is that an empty 1.5
> F cap will put the
> > photovore to 'sleep' under a bright light, until
> its fed long enough to
> > have a good energy reserve.
> > As the supercap charges, the photovore slowly
> wakes and turns to the
> > light, then becomes as active as usual once its
> full.
> >
> > 'Till the local light pool goes dark....
> >
> > Then the smart cap circuit triggers, and the PNP
> switch is no longer
> > starved for base current. The supercap is dumped
> through 75 ohms into the
> > photovores main
> > drive caps, and the bugger takes off like a
> cockaroach directly towards
> > the next nearest light source (there's an on-line
> vid of this behavior).
> >
> > Just adding the 1.5 F cap, floater cells, a diode
> and resistor, the range
> > of behavior has really expanded a lot. This
> little photovore has long
> > term behaviors and 'memory'.
> >
> > Its really amazing to see how well the
> photopoppers 'vision' system can
> > operate over a huge range of illumination levels
> and still accurately
> > track a distant light source. I mostly build CPU
> based bots, and getting
> > the optical dynamic range that the simple popper
> has is not easy to do.
> > But put a little energy reserve in there, and see
> how well a photovore can
> > see in the dark!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> ATTACHMENT part 2 image/gif
Attachment: MARTCAP.gif
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9338 Tue, 18 Jan 2000 16:32:44 -0600 [alt-beam] Re: Pertaining to the Hextile things. You should really make them beam@sgiblab.sgi.com Richard Piotter
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content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
Who has a bread board on their final robot anyway? I designed the pinout
of that DIP chip so you have the positive power runnnig above the chip
and ground below the chip. The ouputs can lead straight to the inputs of
the next neuron.
First, the pinout:
.--------.
LED Polarity | o o | No Connection
Power (Vcc) | o o | Output
In/Polarity Nu | o o | Bias
In/Polarity Nv | o o | Power (Ground)
'--------'
And as an example for a finished PCB for a 4 Nv loop
.->-->-->-->-.
|____________|
.------------.------------.------------.---O Vcc
| | | |
o-| o o-| o o-
As you can see, you can create a 4 Nv Microcore with NO JUMPERS. I'm not
about to draw it in ASCII, but it'd be a simple task to physicaly have
the chips oriented at angles to each other, literaly forming a physical
loop! Central ground point, Vcc surounding the circle of chips, and the
process propogation lines in a circle as well. Add 2 more for a 6 Nv
core. you even end up with a hexagon shape if you like with the 6 Nv core!
What if I need to branch the Nvs??? Simple, you use a couple jumpers and
you literaly can see the branches by the positioning of the switches
.->-->-->-->-->-
|
.->-'->-->-->-.
|_____________|
.------------.------------.------------.------------.-------------.
| | | | | |
| o-| o o-| o o-| o o-| o o-| o
| o-' o--. o-' o--. o-' o--. o-' o---. o-' o---.
| o-. o O o-. o O o-. o O o-. o O o-.
o O
| .--o `-o 2 `--o `-o 3 `--o `-o 4 `--o `-o 5 `--o
`-o 6
| | | | | | |
| | '------------'------------'--------.---'-------------O
| o Jumper | Gnd
|-------+----.------------.------------.---O Vcc |
| o | | | |
o-| o / o-| o o-| o o-| o |
o-' o--< o-' o--. o-' o--. o-' o---. |
o-. o O o-. o O o-. o O o-. o O |
o `-o 1 `--o `-o 2 `--o `-o 3 `--o `-o 4| |
| | | | | | |
| '------------'------------'------------'---o+o--'
| | Jumper
'------------------------------------------------'
See how easy it is to branch these things, and orient them to follow the
neuron layout! Not many people are going to permanently mount a
breadboard to a robot, and if they do, it probably is for minor
configuration, not the whole circuit. Remember though, the DIP circuit
itself would actualy be the functional core of a hextile. Solder pads
and trace cut points would be used to reconfigure the hextile for
various forms of opperation. When you buy it, you'd recieve a hextile,
but if you want DIP modules for breadboarding and PCBs, you can trim the
hextiles down to the edge of the core, leaving a DIP package from the
hextile. This is what I'm getting at.
On each board, a .22uF capacitor could come soldered on (SMT or through
hole, whatever works). The resistor (and optionaly, BOTH the resistor
and capacitor) can have small machined sockets so you can switch out
various values of resistors. It'd be nice to have a variable resistor,
but the way I see it, it can always be added later.
For breadboarding, the chips can easily be placed in rows and groups
that indicate loops, branches, etc. It can't be that bad! If you have a
decent bread board with more than one row for chips, then it's even less
of a complaint!
You say you are also having trouble with the terminal layout for the
hextiles? I guess the big question is can the hextiles be flipped over
(component side of one and solder side of another facing up)? That would
add some complexity, but if you decide to stick with plain edge to edge,
no flipping hextiles, then you have Vcc, Ground, In, Out, and Bias to
worry about. Bias is not typicaly something you take from another Nv,
but rather from sensors, so a through hole conenction, socketed or
solder through hole, would be a reasonable connection for the Bias line.
You could add an edge connector anyway though. The points could be
grounds. Common ground shared through the whole circuit. You could have
1 input edge and 2 output edges. You'd only need a few pins, but Vcc
could be next to the grounds. In and outs should sit in the center. If
done right, you then have the boards so they can be flipped, though
there is little reason to do so.
For things like a 4 Nv microcore, you'd end up with a pyramid shape, due
to the triangle shape of the Hextiles. A 6 Nv loop would lay flat. an 8
Nv net would need to be oblong. For branches, you obviously just use
another input off the other output of the Nv. All boards are designed to
be facing up, and if you need one facing the opposite orientation, (one,
with LED on top, and one with LED below), you can just tie the User
defined and VCC terminals.
Plus, the fact that if you need a socketable DIP circuit (which is
smaller as well), you merely cut off the portions of the hextile that
aren't necessary for the DIP package! So simple!
DIP section pin out legend:
L LED
+ Vcc
v Nv Input
u Nu Input
O Output
B Bias
G Ground
An "x" is a configuration point. There are configuration points to
configure the Hextile for Nv and Nu opperation, and to disable the LED.
You cut the point with an x-acto knife or something and this configures it.
Top side:
/\ Gnd
/__\
/ | \
User /\ | /\ Vcc
Defined /_O | o_\
/ o \
Out /\----------/\ Out
/_| oL o |_\
/ ,---o+ Oo--' \
Vcc /\/,-x-ov Bo-O /\ User
/_| |-x-ou Go---. O_\ Defined
/ \ \____ \__ \
/o \__ \__ _O \o\
/__\__/__\__/__\__/__\__/__\
Gnd Vcc In User Gnd
Defined
Bottom Side:
/\ Gnd
/ \
/ \
Vcc / \ User
/ o--. O \ Defined
/ ,--o \__ \
Out / / \ \ Out
/ / o Lo-x| \
/ | oO +o--' \
User / | O-oB vo--x-. \ Vcc
Defined / O |---oG uo--x-| \
/ ,--'-------------|__ \
/o' O `o\
/__________________________\
Gnd User In Vcc Gnd
Defined
The image included is the same old image as before, but NOW includes a
FULL PCB LAYOUT, complete with the DIP and Tritile portions. Look over
it. Let me know if I made any mistakes. I think I did it corectly. This
is one of many possible designs, but it will support 4 and 6 Nv
Microcores, and you can create larger loops and straight lines by
alternating the orientation.
The following are just a few examples of some possible structures.
4 Nv Pyramid
O,'|'.
,' O|I '.O
,'__I_|_O__'.
'. O | I ,'
O'. I|O ,'
'.|,'O
6 Nv Loop (flat)
,'|'.
O,' | '.O
,' O|I '.
|`-_I | O_-'|
O| O`-.|,-'I |
| I_-'|`-_O |O
|,-'O | I`-.|
`. I|O ,'
O`. | ,'O
`.|,'
Straight Nv chain
|`-_O
I| `-.
| O_-'|`-_O
|,-'I O|I `-.
`-_ | O_-'|`-_O
O`-.|,-'I O|I `-.
`-_ | O_-'|
O`-.|,-'I |O
`-_ |
O`-.|
Nv chain with branch
O_-'|
,-' |O
|`-_O O_-'|`-_I |
I| `-. ,-' O|I O`-.|
| O_-'|`-_I | _-'
|,-'I O|I `-.|,-'O
`-_ | O_-'|`-_O
O`-.|,-'I O|I `-.
`-_ | O_-'|
O`-.|,-'I |O
`-_ |
O`-.|
David Perry wrote:
>
> okay let me make one of my goals clearer -
> I want to see the NV net visually - when i build a NV with a 74hc14,
> although on paper it has some order, on the breadboard it is a mess. I can't
> see what is happening and i can't visualise how its working.
>
> By making DIP circuits, sure, they're the most expandable, you can create
> any shape. But you can't get an idea of the actual shape of the NV net, all
> the chips are in a row. So in other words this doesn't accomplish what i'm
> looking for.
>
> By making them hextiles or some other configuration i want to be able to
> link them into an actual ring, and see the shape of the NV net. (which is
> why it is so hard for me to come up with a decent connector design).
>
> I definitely want to have the DIP chip intergrated, a little like a basic
> stamp (i would use a socket though) but i want to make a visual shape, not
> one on paper.
>
> okay i think i've straightened out my view,
>
> what do you think?
>
> David
--
Richard Piotter The Richfiles Robotics & TI web page:
richfile@rconnect.com http://richfiles.calc.org
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Attachment: OneNv.gif
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9339 Tue, 18 Jan 2000 18:13:48 EST [alt-beam] D1 beam@corp.sgi.com Bumper314@aol.com OK, I thought I would tell you all that I got Wilf's spectacular new D1
circuit to work last night. I think I have a bad bread board, not sure
though. Right now its fully charged to 2.5v and happily blinking at me on top
my computer (I unhooked the solar cell so I can see just how long it will
last). I was wondering if anyone else has made this yet. My LED blinks kinda
strangely but it still looks cool. Its does a dim-off-dim-bright cycle rather
then a nice on-off, but its still cool. Thanks again to all who helped
Steve
9340 Tue, 18 Jan 2000 16:10:20 -0700 [alt-beam] Re: Make them Hextiles AND DIP......... beam@sgiblab.sgi.com Dave Hrynkiw At 08:12 PM 1/17/00 , Dane Gardner wrote:
>BTW...Does anybody here have enough capitol to market such a wonderful
>device?
...here I am in the background, madly scribbling notes!
-Dave
---------------------------------------------------------------
"Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes,
that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only
2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_".
http://www.solarbotics.com
9341 Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:05:33 -0500 [alt-beam] Re: D1 beam@sgiblab.sgi.com Bob Shannon Wilf Rigter wrote:
> You mean:
>
> <>
>
> regards
>
> wilf
Yes, thats it with one exception...
The 2 Sanyo AM-1437 cells are each in parallel. This parallel pair is in
series just as you show in the GIF file.
The Smart Cap circuit itself is only the NPN phototransistor, PNP switch
and bias resistor. The whole of the schematic (with the slight change to the
1437 solar cell wiring) is an accurate schematic for Vore-n-more, not just
the photopopper section.
I've used this circuit to power all sorts of things from LM3909 flashers to
PIC chips. It seems pretty robust, it also works with coin cell batteries (I've
free formed the circuit on the bottom of some 2024 coin cell holders, calling
that a smart socket).
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