Alt-BEAM Archive
Message #08568
To: beam@sgiblab.sgi.com
From: JVernonM@aol.com
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 02:38:35 EST
Subject: [alt-beam] Re: Repairing solar cells...
In a message dated 12/23/99 2:18:45 AM Eastern Standard Time,
Ian@beam-online.com writes:
> it is a
> GOOD idea to cover over the pads and a small area around them with epoxy or
> hotglue.
The epoxy works but will pull loose with time. Please, throw the hot glue
guns away! They are useless on these projects and produce extremely ugly
results. Hot glue works best on porous materials. If your bot is made of wood
or raffia, then go for it.
See ya,
Jim
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Exhibit/8281/beamart.html
ICQ# 55657870
8569 Thu, 23 Dec 1999 12:15:33 -0500 (EST) [alt-beam] 4 motor walkers beam@sgiblab.sgi.com jester96beam@iname.com can anyone give me some good info about 4 motor walkers? I can't find much on the net. How do they walk? How do there legs move? (how do the motors turn in relation to one another?)
Also I don't understand how any of the stryders actually push themselves along. It seems to me that when a leg moves backwards (to push the bot foreward) the 'foot' would come OF the ground.
Thanks
Chris
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8570 Thu, 23 Dec 1999 17:11:08 EST [alt-beam] Re: 4 motor walkers beam@sgiblab.sgi.com JVernonM@aol.com In a message dated 12/23/99 12:19:54 PM Eastern Standard Time,
jester96beam@iname.com writes:
> can anyone give me some good info about 4 motor walkers? I can't find much
on
> the net. How do they walk? How do there legs move? (how do the motors turn
in
> relation to one another?)
There is a nice movie on Chiu's site. It's a 5 motor walker, but if you
ignore the waist motor, you can see the basic pattern of how a 4 motor works.
> Also I don't understand how any of the stryders actually push themselves
> along. It seems to me that when a leg moves backwards (to push the bot
> foreward) the 'foot' would come OF the ground.
Well, to be blunt, they barely do. The stride is short and the feet barely
come off the surface. It's more of a shuffle than a true walk. Fact is, they
can't operate off of that nice, smooth table top. Which always made me wonder
what the point was. I mean, that is a heck of a lot of mechanics to get
basically the same performance (maybe even less) than a wheeled bot. The
addition of the waist motor seems to help quite a bit. Allowing the bot to
get some more air between feet and floor. The ratcheting of the front legs
also gives the 5 motor the ability to climb obstacles, something a 4 motor
just can't do. If you look at the tactile sensors on the front legs of
Stryder, you will see that they are right down at the bottom of the legs.
Stryder just can't surmount anything higher than a few sheets of paper. A
rover with large wheels could simply run circles around it. Walkers are meant
to get the bots off of that table and get them into the real world. I have,
as yet, not seen any of Tilden's walkers accomplish this. Some of the Miller
designs do it in a randomized, clumsy fashion by falling over things. Not
really controlled walking. And I do question all of the different "strides"
associated with these walkers. I think there is more hype than walking gaits
being demonstrated there. Yes, Stryder is a beautiful thing to look at, but
it's functionality is highly questionable. Most people on this list could
build a two motor rover that would out perform it on every level. What was
that quote about complexity matching functionality again? BTW, if you want to
see something walk, go to the Lynxmotion site and look at the hexapod movies.
That thing is shown walking over obstacles, through a creek, and over rocks.
Fairly impressive for a hobby level walker. Yes, it costs over 600.00, but
that is only the cost of ONE of those nice gearmotors on Stryder. It uses a
microprocessor, so it is considered a heresy by this list, but it's worth a
look. And I'm sure many don't even want to discuss AIBO.
See ya,
Jim
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Exhibit/8281/beamart.html
ICQ# 55657870
8571 Thu, 23 Dec 1999 19:05:56 -0500 (EST) [alt-beam] Re: 4 motor walkers beam@sgiblab.sgi.com jester96beam@iname.com Hmmm...
What about Scout Walker 2? I found a few sites with good info on it earlier today. They say it does a fairly good job of getting around. It's motors are mounted differently, so what about it?
Chris
---- you wrote:
> In a message dated 12/23/99 12:19:54 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> jester96beam@iname.com writes:
>
> > can anyone give me some good info about 4 motor walkers? I can't find much
> on
> > the net. How do they walk? How do there legs move? (how do the motors turn
> in
> > relation to one another?)
> There is a nice movie on Chiu's site. It's a 5 motor walker, but if you
> ignore the waist motor, you can see the basic pattern of how a 4 motor works.
>
> > Also I don't understand how any of the stryders actually push themselves
> > along. It seems to me that when a leg moves backwards (to push the bot
> > foreward) the 'foot' would come OF the ground.
> Well, to be blunt, they barely do. The stride is short and the feet barely
> come off the surface. It's more of a shuffle than a true walk. Fact is, they
> can't operate off of that nice, smooth table top. Which always made me wonder
> what the point was. I mean, that is a heck of a lot of mechanics to get
> basically the same performance (maybe even less) than a wheeled bot. The
> addition of the waist motor seems to help quite a bit. Allowing the bot to
> get some more air between feet and floor. The ratcheting of the front legs
> also gives the 5 motor the ability to climb obstacles, something a 4 motor
> just can't do. If you look at the tactile sensors on the front legs of
> Stryder, you will see that they are right down at the bottom of the legs.
> Stryder just can't surmount anything higher than a few sheets of paper. A
> rover with large wheels could simply run circles around it. Walkers are meant
> to get the bots off of that table and get them into the real world. I have,
> as yet, not seen any of Tilden's walkers accomplish this. Some of the Miller
> designs do it in a randomized, clumsy fashion by falling over things. Not
> really controlled walking. And I do question all of the different "strides"
> associated with these walkers. I think there is more hype than walking gaits
> being demonstrated there. Yes, Stryder is a beautiful thing to look at, but
> it's functionality is highly questionable. Most people on this list could
> build a two motor rover that would out perform it on every level. What was
> that quote about complexity matching functionality again? BTW, if you want to
> see something walk, go to the Lynxmotion site and look at the hexapod movies.
> That thing is shown walking over obstacles, through a creek, and over rocks.
> Fairly impressive for a hobby level walker. Yes, it costs over 600.00, but
> that is only the cost of ONE of those nice gearmotors on Stryder. It uses a
> microprocessor, so it is considered a heresy by this list, but it's worth a
> look. And I'm sure many don't even want to discuss AIBO.
>
> See ya,
> Jim
> http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Exhibit/8281/beamart.html
> ICQ# 55657870
>
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8572 Thu, 23 Dec 1999 19:08:55 -0500 (EST) [alt-beam] BTW (was 4 motor walker) beam@sgiblab.sgi.com jester96beam@iname.com How do you make a 4 motor walker turn and reverse?
Chris
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8573 Thu, 23 Dec 1999 19:12:25 -0500 (EST) [alt-beam] Re: framsticks beam@sgiblab.sgi.com jester96beam@iname.com you guys should check it out. I downloaded but didn't do much with it. But I also downloaded a few of the movies and they are really cool...
Chris
---- you wrote:
> browse the site, download the program, and see for yourself how it relates to beam.
> http://www.frams.poznan.pl/
> -Panophobic
> -----------------------------------------------
> FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com
> Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com
>
>
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8574 Fri, 24 Dec 1999 01:00:08 GMT [alt-beam] LEDs beam@sgiblab.sgi.com "Mike Kulesza" So how do all these different kinds of LEDs effect the SE anyway? Why does
the FLEDSE use a FLED? not say some other type? What do the colours mean?
--> trigger voltage? What does whether it flashes or not mean?
Thanks for answering!
______________________________________________________
8575 Friday, 24 December 1999 12:02 LEDs beam@sgiblab.sgi.com Mike Kulesza
>So how do all these different kinds of LEDs effect the SE anyway? Why does
>the FLEDSE use a FLED? not say some other type? What do the colours mean?
>--> trigger voltage? What does whether it flashes or not mean?
>
>Thanks for answering!
>______________________________________________________
>
8576 Thu, 23 Dec 1999 18:34:29 -0700 [alt-beam] Re: 4 motor walkers beam@sgiblab.sgi.com Dave Hrynkiw At 05:05 PM 12/23/99 , jester96beam@iname.com wrote:
>What about Scout Walker 2? I found a few sites with good info on it
>earlier today. They say it does a fairly good job of getting around. It's
>motors are mounted differently, so what about it?
It uses EXACTLY the same electronic layout as a Stryder, but with the
motors horizontally opposed. Mark's model (using exactly the same motors as
Stryder) is very capable of climbing obstacles and plowing through shag
carpeting.
The way it moves is hard to describe. It uses a bicore master/slave pair,
with 2/3 phase difference between front and back. It can turn on a dime, go
fwd/reverse, and if you can tweak the phase resistors, do anything in
between. It's a great layout, but I haven't been quite satisfied with the
design of the SW2 thus far. We're getting a technical assistant in the
office in the new year, and that'll be one of his first projects.
If I get a chance over the holidays, I'll try to make Stryder/SW2 videos
available online.
Regards,
Dave
---------------------------------------------------------------
"Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes,
that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only
2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_".
http://www.solarbotics.com
8577 Thu, 23 Dec 1999 18:36:26 -0700 [alt-beam] Re: LEDs beam@sgiblab.sgi.com Dave Hrynkiw At 06:00 PM 12/23/99 , Mike Kulesza wrote:
>So how do all these different kinds of LEDs effect the SE anyway? Why does
>the FLEDSE use a FLED? not say some other type? What do the colours mean?
>--> trigger voltage? What does whether it flashes or not mean?
FLED = FLASHING LED. Pretty much a necessity, although you can get away
with regular LED's as triggers if you've got enough solarcell.
FLED colour DOES affect trigger voltage. Green is the lowest (going from
memory here...), triggering at about 2.8V. Yellow triggers at about 3, and
Red is highest at 3.4V, but these are dependant on the FLED manufacturer too.
Regards,
Dave
---------------------------------------------------------------
"Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes,
that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only
2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_".
http://www.solarbotics.com
8578 Thu, 23 Dec 1999 20:44:36 EST [alt-beam] Re: 4 motor walkers beam@sgiblab.sgi.com JVernonM@aol.com In a message dated 12/23/99 7:07:38 PM Eastern Standard Time,
jester96beam@iname.com writes:
> What about Scout Walker 2? I found a few sites with good info on it earlier
> today. They say it does a fairly good job of getting around. It's motors
are
> mounted differently, so what about it?
If you mean the Solarbotics kit, I'd have to say it doesn't compare to the
Quad walker at Lynxmotion. This is just my opinion based on the options and
expandability of the Lynxmotion product and is not a knock to Dave (although
it will be seen that way no matter what). Particularly if you compare
functionality to price. If this offends anyone's sensibilities, please,
imagine that I said Scoutwalkers are wonderful, beautiful, robotic platforms
destined to revolutionize robotics as we know it. And also, please everyone
go out and buy at least 6 of them.
See ya,
Jim
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Exhibit/8281/beamart.html
ICQ# 55657870
8579 Fri, 24 Dec 1999 02:00:59 GMT [alt-beam] Re: LEDs beam@sgiblab.sgi.com "Mike Kulesza" What about the colours on normal LEDs? what are the voltages?
>From: Dave Hrynkiw
>Reply-To: beam@sgiblab.sgi.com
>To: beam@sgiblab.sgi.com
>Subject: Re: LEDs
>Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1999 18:36:26 -0700
>
>At 06:00 PM 12/23/99 , Mike Kulesza wrote:
>>So how do all these different kinds of LEDs effect the SE anyway? Why does
>>the FLEDSE use a FLED? not say some other type? What do the colours mean?
>>--> trigger voltage? What does whether it flashes or not mean?
>
>FLED = FLASHING LED. Pretty much a necessity, although you can get away
>with regular LED's as triggers if you've got enough solarcell.
>
>FLED colour DOES affect trigger voltage. Green is the lowest (going from
>memory here...), triggering at about 2.8V. Yellow triggers at about 3, and
>Red is highest at 3.4V, but these are dependant on the FLED manufacturer
>too.
>
>Regards,
>Dave
>---------------------------------------------------------------
>"Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes,
>that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only
> 2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_".
> http://www.solarbotics.com
______________________________________________________
8580 Thu, 23 Dec 1999 18:06:47 -0800 (PST) [alt-beam] Wire recommendation? beam@sgiblab.sgi.com Lee Golden Hi folks ---
I just finished another LCD name tag using Wilf's new
circuit (very cool). I'll have it up on a page soon.
While I was building it I couldn't help but notice a
big difference in the quality of the different wires I
used to solder it together. Some spare bits from a
Nihon gearmotor wire were a joy to work with... the
insulation didn't melt back when I was tinning the end
of the wire, etc.
Other wire I have from R_dio Shack melts away from the
end and is generally more difficult to work with.
After all that, my question is "what wire do you guys
use to build your bots?" Ian mentioned at one time
that he had some Thermax wire, but no longer had the
source info for it. Any recommendations would be most
appreciated!
Lee Golden
8581 Thu, 23 Dec 1999 18:36:04 PST [alt-beam] Re: 4 motor walkers beam@sgiblab.sgi.com "Timothy Flytcher" Yes Dave... This would be great.... I'd love to see it :)
Timothy...
>
>If I get a chance over the holidays, I'll try to make Stryder/SW2 videos
>available online.
>
>Regards,
>Dave
______________________________________________________
8582 Thu, 23 Dec 1999 22:20:56 -0500 Wire recommendation? Lee Golden
> Hi folks ---
>
> I just finished another LCD name tag using Wilf's new
> circuit (very cool). I'll have it up on a page soon.
>
> While I was building it I couldn't help but notice a
> big difference in the quality of the different wires I
> used to solder it together. Some spare bits from a
> Nihon gearmotor wire were a joy to work with... the
> insulation didn't melt back when I was tinning the end
> of the wire, etc.
>
> Other wire I have from R_dio Shack melts away from the
> end and is generally more difficult to work with.
>
> After all that, my question is "what wire do you guys
> use to build your bots?" Ian mentioned at one time
> that he had some Thermax wire, but no longer had the
> source info for it. Any recommendations would be most
> appreciated!
>
> Lee Golden
> _________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
>
8583 Thu, 23 Dec 1999 20:31:30 -0700 [alt-beam] Re: LEDs beam@sgiblab.sgi.com Dave Hrynkiw At 07:00 PM 12/23/99 , Mike Kulesza wrote:
>What about the colours on normal LEDs? what are the voltages?
Haven't a clue. Sorry!
-Dave
---------------------------------------------------------------
"Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes,
that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only
2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_".
http://www.solarbotics.com
8584 Thu, 23 Dec 1999 20:30:59 -0700 [alt-beam] Re: 4 motor walkers beam@sgiblab.sgi.com Dave Hrynkiw At 06:44 PM 12/23/99 , JVernonM@aol.com wrote:
>If you mean the Solarbotics kit, I'd have to say it doesn't compare to the
>Quad walker at Lynxmotion. This is just my opinion based on the options and
>expandability of the Lynxmotion product and is not a knock to Dave (although
>it will be seen that way no matter what). Particularly if you compare
>functionality to price. If this offends anyone's sensibilities, please,
>imagine that I said Scoutwalkers are wonderful, beautiful, robotic platforms
>destined to revolutionize robotics as we know it. And also, please everyone
>go out and buy at least 6 of them.
Well, let's not go crazy the _other_ way now! ;>
The Lynxmotion stuff is _very_ nice - something we're aiming for
quality/function-wise. One of the reasons the SW2 isn't going to be out for
a while yet.
-Dave
---------------------------------------------------------------
"Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes,
that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only
2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_".
http://www.solarbotics.com
8585 Thu, 23 Dec 1999 23:37:27 EST [alt-beam] Re: 4 motor walkers beam@sgiblab.sgi.com JVernonM@aol.com In a message dated 12/23/99 10:32:24 PM Eastern Standard Time,
dave@solarbotics.com writes:
> Well, let's not go crazy the _other_ way now! ;>
>
> The Lynxmotion stuff is _very_ nice - something we're aiming for
> quality/function-wise. One of the reasons the SW2 isn't going to be out
for
> a while yet.
>
> -Dave
Good for you Dave! I must say I had ducked and covered when I first opened
the reply, expecting to be flogged. You have found the undeniable kink in my
malcontents armor. A reasonable, truthful response. I am humbled beyond
words. Your photo has been removed from my dartboard :). Merry Christmas and
good will toward you and yours.
See ya,
Jim
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Exhibit/8281/beamart.html
ICQ# 55657870
8586 Thu, 23 Dec 1999 21:44:04 -0800 [alt-beam] Re: Wire recommendation? beam@sgiblab.sgi.com Sean Rigter Hi Lee,
Here is my little Christmas present to better looking, more reliable
projects:
I recommend always use teflon or kynar insulated no.26 or 28 gauge,
pre-tinned wirewrap wire for jumper connections. The high temperature
insulation will not melt even if in direct contact with the soldering
iron tip. It's not cheap but the results are well worth the price. At
Radio Shack you can buy very expensive precut lengths or a slightly
cheaper 10' roll. To get a good price break buy a 100' roll from
Digikey. The no.26 wire is stronger but a little heavier than the no.28
wire.
After cutting and stripping thousands of teflon wire jumpers, the
technique I use to prepare lengths of wire ready for soldering is as
follows:
1.set wire strippers for the size wire used by adjusting the "stop"
screw so that the blade cuts through the insulation but not into the
conductor.
2.To remove insulation from the end of the wire, cut insulation with
wire strippers in the appropriate place and slide the slippery teflon
insulation off the end of the wire.
3. For example, to cut eight 2 inch wire jumpers with 1/8 inch bare
conductor at each end:
DON"T cut the 2" lengths of wire off the roll and then strip 1/8" of
insulation off each end.
DO strip 2" of insulation off the end of the wire while still on the
roll and then cut 1.75" insulation and slide insulation towards the end
of the conductor leaving just 1/8" of bare end exposed. This leaves
section of the conductor bare about 2" from the end of the roll so now
cut the wire 2" from the end leaving 1/8" of bare conductor exposed at
each end, ready for soldering. Repeat the same procedure, cut and slide
another 1.75" length of insulation to within 1/8" of the end and cut the
exposed conductor leaving 1/8" bare at each end.
While more than two or three chips is unusual in BEAM circuits, I
suggest using some kind of board to mount the circuit for anthing more
than 2 ICs. PCBs are the best but only for tried and proven circuits.
For assembling prototypes of complex new circuit designs, I have used
(expensive) plated-through-hole protoboards with great success. But I
have also used cheap Radio Shack type perf boards with solder pads for
point to point soldering of circuits with as many as 30 ICs and 300-400
jumpers of various lengths and can suggest a few more tips:
1. Use IC sockets
2. Don't overheat the solder pad
3. Solder IC sockets in place leaving at least 0.1" space (1 hole)
between sockets
4. Solder bypass caps and other power supply components next.
5. Solder V+ and GND jumpers to IC sockets, etc, and external power
connector.
6. Powerup circuit without ICs installed and check voltage at each IC
socket
7. Solder connecting jumpers between IC socket pins by reheating the
solder on the pin/pad and sliding the bare end of the jumper into the
perf hole next to the pin.
8. First wire up the oscillator/pattern generator ie microcore or master
bicore.
9. The order of wiring is important because after soldering jumpers and
passive components to each IC socket, check your work at that point.
First test the power supply connections (most common mode of failure).
Next
power up the circuit and check for normal operation. Then temporarily
plug in IC and check operation. When satisfied that all is well unplug
IC and solder in the next functional block. That way you naturally
correct wiring and circuit problems before they are difficult to
isolate.
10. Solder and double check the wiring and circuit operation after
adding each functional block (IC or sensor, etc) to the growing
circuit, until the circuit is complete.
Check out my earlier beam head tutorial for an example of this "step and
debug" technique in action as a cure for the common "build and destroy"
syndrome.
Well that's all for now .. good luck and enjoy
wilf
Lee Golden wrote:
> Hi folks ---
>
> I just finished another LCD name tag using Wilf's new
> circuit (very cool). I'll have it up on a page soon.
>
> While I was building it I couldn't help but notice a
> big difference in the quality of the different wires I
> used to solder it together. Some spare bits from a
> Nihon gearmotor wire were a joy to work with... the
> insulation didn't melt back when I was tinning the end
> of the wire, etc.
>
> Other wire I have from R_dio Shack melts away from the
> end and is generally more difficult to work with.
>
> After all that, my question is "what wire do you guys
> use to build your bots?" Ian mentioned at one time
> that he had some Thermax wire, but no longer had the
> source info for it. Any recommendations would be most
> appreciated!
>
> Lee Golden
> _________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
>
8587 Thu, 23 Dec 1999 23:31:30 -0800 (PST) [alt-beam] Re: Head circuits beam@sgiblab.sgi.com Daniel Grace You're not alone at all. Sounds great. Isn't there
some predator and prey board made by someone that you
can connect to your bot? My memory has always been
bad.
~Daniel
--- "Phillip A. Ryals" wrote:
> Quite right Thomas!
>
> Maybe it's me, but I want my robot to do *something*
> else. It just seems
> like going toward the light has been done to the
> point of ironing out any
> wrinkles. Now maybe we should go on to more
> advanced behavior.
>
> Even if it's just seeking out a different target...
>
> I'm thinking of a robot that is maybe attracted to a
> becon on another bot.
> That way, it's always moving. Maybe one bot is
> attracted to the other, and
> the other is repelled? Anyway, the whole time one
> could be chasing the
> other, and the other is always running away. That
> seems like a neat little
> project. But then put the light seeking solar cells
> on each one for power.
> Now they have even more to do.
>
> That seems like a lot more fun to watch than just an
> ordinary photovore.
>
> Or am I alone?
>
> Phillip
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Thomas Pilgaard Nielsen
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, December 18, 1999 7:35 PM
> Subject: Re: Head circuits
>
>
> Wasn't Phillips point to make a robot that would be
> able to do something
> !else!
> than walking towards the light? Isn't that what you
> are suggesting?
>
> Cheers + goodnight (it's 2:34 here in Denmark)
>
> - Thomas
>
>
>
>
>
=====
ICQ # 39402143
8588 Fri, 24 Dec 1999 04:41:28 -0500 [alt-beam] Out of Office AutoReply: alt-beam digest alt-beam@egroups.com RobillardM@andovercontrols.com
I will be out of the office until Jan 3.
8589 Fri, 24 Dec 1999 12:18:20 +0000 Re: Carbon fiber, very dangerous and construction overkill
>
>
>
> re the recent chat on carbon fibre
> as I pointed out before carbon fibre splinters dont tend to be visible to
the
> naked eye and once in your skin migrate around your body,
> the recomendation is that when handling the raw cloth or strand rubber or
latex
> gloves are worn,
> when cutting the stuff as some have described large coluds of the stuff
become
> airborne so when cutting rod lubricate with washing up liquid (soap) that
way
> you will keep down the stuff , NEVER NEVER NEVER sand the stuff without
a
> wetting medium.
>
> The use of carbon in our context is downright stupid since its just
overkill for
> the task, I remember the chaps that made a walker in 1/8 th carbon sheet
!!
> they dont even use stuff that sort of sheet dimension often aircraft let
alone a
> mincing little bot. These fools apparently sanded the stuff to shape
!!!!!!
>
> This stuff is only of any value if you use it in the correct places for
the
> right reason rather than for the sake of using it !!!!!
> Remember that Carbon Fibre is stiff but britle and in rod form the resin
that
> surrounds the inividual fibres will delaminate from the fibres long before
the
> actual fibre snaps.
> I recomend that beamers stick to safer alternatives that are plenty
strong
> enough for our task unless you know the PROS and CONS of Carbon,
> have a valid reason to use it ,
> and intent to use it in sensible construction techniques.
>
>
> Rob D
> AKA " Powerbuilder"
>
>
>
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