Alt-BEAM Archive
Message #08058
To: beam@sgiblab.sgi.com
From: JVernonM@aol.com
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:00:00 EST
Subject: [alt-beam] Re: Type 3 Solar Enging
In a message dated 11/29/99 7:26:59 PM Eastern Standard Time,
dilbertpete@hotmail.com writes:
> According to it, a type 3 solar engine is where it triggers
> when the capacitor slows down its charging rate. I have never seen a
> schematic for this nor have built one.
Sounds like one of Steve Bolts suneater series solar engines to me. Could be
they are what is refereed to as a type 3. Check out Pitronics.
http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbolt/e-index.html
See ya,
Jim
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Exhibit/8281/beamart.html
ICQ# 55657870
8059 Mon, 29 Nov 1999 23:45:48 EST [alt-beam] Chloroplast SE alt-beam@egroups.com TurtleTek@aol.com Greetings,
My last email didn't get many responses. Probably because it's in the form of
one long rant asking many questions about various topics...So, here goes,
perhaps someone can help me out...this may be old news to you guys but I'm
Rip Van Winkle here, fill me in.
What on earth is this chloroplast SE thing?! Let's go over what I think I
know so you guys can correct me:
Well..I've gathered that it's a solar engine, of course.
It maintains about 5 volts.
It's just as or more inexpensive than the old 1381 photopoppers we know and
love.
It can use bigger motors that have more torque and a smaller price tag
It can be used as the foundation for piggybacking other circuits apon it
I want to see what others have done with it first. Have any of you built a
bot using this SE? Any sites featuring any "CSE" bots? Is there a website
listing parts? Where does one get these parts, digikey? How much of solar
power does this require? Are there cons to this engine compared to the old
1381? blah, blah, blah
You get my drift, I am mostly interested in how it compares with the old SEs
we've always been using. Thanks a lot.
-Brien the TurtleTek
8060 Mon, 29 Nov 1999 20:42:56 -0800 (PST) [alt-beam] Re: Type 3 Solar Enging beam@sgiblab.sgi.com Daniel Grace Thanks for the reply, but he uses a modified voltage
level solar engine (I got to remember which type that
is!).
~Daniel
--- JVernonM@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 11/29/99 7:26:59 PM Eastern
> Standard Time,
> dilbertpete@hotmail.com writes:
>
> > According to it, a type 3 solar engine is where it
> triggers
> > when the capacitor slows down its charging rate.
> I have never seen a
> > schematic for this nor have built one.
> Sounds like one of Steve Bolts suneater series solar
> engines to me. Could be
> they are what is refereed to as a type 3. Check out
> Pitronics.
> http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbolt/e-index.html
>
> See ya,
> Jim
>
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Exhibit/8281/beamart.html
> ICQ# 55657870
>
=====
ICQ # 39402143
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8061 Tue, 30 Nov 1999 15:43:23 +1100 (EST) [alt-beam] Re: Type 3 Solar Enging beam@corp.sgi.com (mailing list) Benjamin Edward Hitchcock I have built a couple of the SunEater engines, and even designed a few
solar engines based on Steve's design.
I can tell you that the SunEater series of engines are all Type 1. If you
have a look at SunEater IV, I'll take you through how it works:
N3 and N4 together make up a pulse generator. This is there because with
any voltage-sensing circuit, the standby current rises a lot just before
switch-on.
Steve was very crafty here - he only checks the voltage a small percentage
of the time. The rest of the time the circuit just sits there, idle,
charging up. Hence the pulse-generator.
When a pulse is generated, it goes through the two diodes in series and
raises the voltage on the top of the 1Meg pot. You may be wondering why
the pot is in that position, or even why the pulse goes to ground through
a resistor: This is because a diode only has a specific votlage across it
when there is current flowing through it. For currents this tiny, you can
vary the voltage on the diode simply by varying the current going through
it. In this circuit, each diode has about 0.5 or so volts drop.
Twiddling the pot changes the current going through the diode - so changes
the diode drop voltage.
Now the voltage on the top of the 1Meg pot has another place to go -
through the 470K resistor to N1. N1 is the 'switch' that will turn the SE
on when the voltage reaches a certain level. How?
Well, when the cap voltage is low, the pulse voltage will also be low,
because the pulse follows the cap voltage. The voltage on the 1Meg pot
will always be (let's say) 2 x 0.5 = 1 volt below the supply voltage when
the pulse generator is firing.
So the input to N1 will always be 1 volt below the supply voltage. But N1
will switch at half the supply voltage - so when half the supply voltage
equals 1 volt, the circuit will switch on. ie at 2V.
Varying the pot will vary the diode forward voltage drop so will change
the voltage difference between the input of N1 and the supply - so will
change the switch-on voltage.
It's quite a clever circuit, and one that I use as the basis for all my
projects now. It allows good use of low light conditions because the
standby current is pretty low.
Note here that the circuit is completely voltage-dependant. If the solar
cell can only supply 1.99 volts, the circuit won't ever switch on.
Hope this helps!
Ben Hitchcock
----- Forwarded message from JVernonM@aol.com -----
In a message dated 11/29/99 7:26:59 PM Eastern Standard Time,
dilbertpete@hotmail.com writes:
> According to it, a type 3 solar engine is where it triggers
> when the capacitor slows down its charging rate. I have never seen a
> schematic for this nor have built one.
Sounds like one of Steve Bolts suneater series solar engines to me. Could be
they are what is refereed to as a type 3. Check out Pitronics.
http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbolt/e-index.html
See ya,
Jim
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Exhibit/8281/beamart.html
ICQ# 55657870
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----- End of forwarded message from JVernonM@aol.com -----
--
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8062 Mon, 29 Nov 1999 22:59:08 -0800 [alt-beam] Re: beam tek website beam@sgiblab.sgi.com Bruce Robinson Tai Heng wrote:
>
> I don't know why but i'm getting a "you are not
> authorized to view this web page" when i try to got to
>
> http://people.ne.mediaone.net/bushbo/beam/links.html
Well, if you go "back up" the URL to
http://people.ne.mediaone.net
You'll get a list of people with personal pages on the site -- and
bushbo (AKA Brian Bush) isn't on the list. So either he's gone
underground, or he isn't running his site anymore. (None of my various
links work to ANY of his pages either).
Bruce
8063 Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:24:06 -0700 [alt-beam] Re: Type 3 Solar Enging beam@sgiblab.sgi.com Dave Hrynkiw At 04:26 PM 11/29/99 , Mike Kulesza wrote:
>So Type 1 is FLEDSE, and Type 2 is 1381SE i figure?
No, the FLEDSE and 1381SE are both type-1, being voltage triggered, i.e.:
They trip at a preset voltage.
Type 2 are timer based, where the SE is tripped at regular clocked
intervals, regardless of stored power
Type 3 is a "charge-curve differentiated", which means the SE triggers when
the storage capacitor charge rate falls below a preset value, say, less
than 0.1v per second. This should be the ideal SE because it won't matter
what sort of light it is in, it will always trigger when the solarcell has
just about peaked in it's ability to generate power in that particular type
of light.
On a totally different topic, Solarbotics now has some efficient Namiki
gearmotors for sale now! Surplus purchase, limited quantity, but very, very
nice....
Regards,
Dave
---------------------------------------------------------------
"Um, no - that's H,R,Y,N,K,I,W. No, not K,I,U,U, K,I,_W_. Yes,
that's right. Yes, I know it looks like "HOCKYRINK." Yup, only
2 vowels. Pronounciation? _SMITH_".
http://www.solarbotics.com
8064 Tue, 30 Nov 1999 07:20:45 -0500 [alt-beam] Re: Type 3 Solar Engine beam@sgiblab.sgi.com Richard Weait At 12:24 AM 11/30/99 -0700, you wrote:
>At 04:26 PM 11/29/99 , Mike Kulesza wrote:
>>So Type 1 is FLEDSE, and Type 2 is 1381SE i figure?
>
>No, the FLEDSE and 1381SE are both type-1, being voltage triggered, i.e.:
>They trip at a preset voltage.
>
>Type 2 are timer based, where the SE is tripped at regular clocked
>intervals, regardless of stored power
The old "HBS" SolarEngine was a Type-2 circuit; as long as there
was a bare minimum voltage to keep the circuit running, it would
trigger each time period.
[Who wants to tackle Type-3]
There was a charging circuit for NiCds published about 15 years
ago that might be a good start on a Type-3 SolarEngine. As I
recall it was in _Electronics Now_ and monitored the battery
voltage until it stopped increasing. (a sign that it has reached
maximum charge) It was testing on a sampling basis (like Sun Eaters)
and could be adjusted for level, rate and sensitivity. The Solar
Engine Type-3 (perhaps SE(3) as a short form?) would differ by
having no rate control; max rate would be determined by the solar
cell. It could trigger whenever the capacitor fails to charge at
one measurable rate and the solar cell is collecting above a set
level.
Failing to compare cap charge rate with input charge available
would cause a trigger for every passing cloud, . . . a 'worst
case' might see a trigger for every half-cycle of a fluorescent
light. What are the other 'gotchas' at low light levels?
Cheers,
Richard.
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