Alt-BEAM Archive
Message #07260
To: beam@sgiblab.sgi.com
From: Senior kyled@cruzers.com
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 19:31:13 -0700
Subject: [alt-beam] Re: aquabots - 'sealed' motor
Well the problem with light bulbs are that there's a vacuum inside, so
I don't think yell be getting much bouynacy out of them but I could be
wrong!
Jacob Booth wrote:
>
> I have a filter pump for my aquarium which has the coils in a sealed
> plastic ring or tub. The armature is a multi-poled magnet also sealed in
> plastic which 'floats' inside the plastic ring. I guess it works more like
> a stepper motor (would need circuitry to do the job of the commutator) but
> is perfectly watertight (well, close enough :). Another bonus is NO wear as
> it uses no bearings. The combination of magnetic field and moving water
> enables the armature (should this be just called a rotor?) to 'float'
> inside the ring and rotate. It is designed to be fully submerged. I am
> thinking of doing something like this as a proof of theory for a waterproof
> motor for myself. I doubt anything home made would be very efficient at all
> though. Does efficient matter when we have other things like water friction
> to worry about? :)
>
> warning: bad ascii image below:
>
> -- || -- A: multi-poled rotor
> || ---- || B: sealed coil assembly
> || | A| || x: water filled void
> || |__| ||
> ||___x__||
> |____B___|
>
> picture a film canister sized water filled void, and the rotor as the roll
> of film size. I want to make a small one!
>
> Oh, and another thought... what about using a small light bulb for a
> buoyancy device? would it make any difference on its own when turned on (eg
> heat up the low pressure gas inside the bulb) compared to off? A bit power
> hungry, but a different idea! Maybe if the gas space in the bulb is too
> small it could be used to heat up a larger container of air for example.
> Would it be better to expose the bulb outside the bot, or have it inside
> the sealed airspace inside the bot? Anyone thought about this before or
> tried it? let me know!
>
> Cheers
> Jacob
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> Jacob Booth BIS, MCP Web http://www.its.mary.acu.edu.au/
> IT Services Email j.booth@mary.acu.edu.au
> Phone (02) 97392235 Fax (02) 97392924
7261 Mon, 1 Nov 1999 22:36:07 EST [alt-beam] Re: solar cell hunt beam@sgiblab.sgi.com Blumojo13@aol.com I've seen those solar cells in the Electronics Goldmine catalog.
blumojo13
7262 Mon, 1 Nov 1999 19:40:01 -0800 [alt-beam] Re: aquabots - 'sealed' motor "'beam@sgiblab.sgi.com'" Wilf Rigter Hi Jacob,
Creative thoughts mind so keep 'em coming.
I like the idea of a sealed enclosure (ie plastic) with a solar engine/motor
driving a magnet which is magnetically coupled through the wall of the
enclosure to another magnet on the outside which is equipped with, or
coupled to, a propeller. This technique is similar to "stirring" chemicals
in a beaker with a plastic covered magnet rotating on the bottom driven by
another rotating magnet underneath the beaker connected to an small motor.
Using a light bulb to change buoyancy won't work since buoyancy is affected
by the displacement of water with a volume of lower density. So the rigid
glass bulb is the problem. A bladder filled with an incompressible substance
which changes volume and density as it is heated should work.
alright!
Wilf Rigter mailto:wilf.rigter@powertech.bc.ca
tel: (604)590-7493
fax: (604)590-3411
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jacob Booth [SMTP:j.booth@mary.acu.edu.au]
> Sent: Monday, November 01, 1999 6:14 PM
> To: beam@sgiblab.sgi.com
> Subject: aquabots - 'sealed' motor
>
> I have a filter pump for my aquarium which has the coils in a sealed
> plastic ring or tub. The armature is a multi-poled magnet also sealed in
> plastic which 'floats' inside the plastic ring. I guess it works more like
> a stepper motor (would need circuitry to do the job of the commutator) but
> is perfectly watertight (well, close enough :). Another bonus is NO wear
> as
> it uses no bearings. The combination of magnetic field and moving water
> enables the armature (should this be just called a rotor?) to 'float'
> inside the ring and rotate. It is designed to be fully submerged. I am
> thinking of doing something like this as a proof of theory for a
> waterproof
> motor for myself. I doubt anything home made would be very efficient at
> all
> though. Does efficient matter when we have other things like water
> friction
> to worry about? :)
>
> warning: bad ascii image below:
>
> -- || -- A: multi-poled rotor
> || ---- || B: sealed coil assembly
> || | A| || x: water filled void
> || |__| ||
> ||___x__||
> |____B___|
>
> picture a film canister sized water filled void, and the rotor as the roll
> of film size. I want to make a small one!
>
> Oh, and another thought... what about using a small light bulb for a
> buoyancy device? would it make any difference on its own when turned on
> (eg
> heat up the low pressure gas inside the bulb) compared to off? A bit power
> hungry, but a different idea! Maybe if the gas space in the bulb is too
> small it could be used to heat up a larger container of air for example.
> Would it be better to expose the bulb outside the bot, or have it inside
> the sealed airspace inside the bot? Anyone thought about this before or
> tried it? let me know!
>
> Cheers
> Jacob
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> Jacob Booth BIS, MCP Web http://www.its.mary.acu.edu.au/
> IT Services Email j.booth@mary.acu.edu.au
> Phone (02) 97392235 Fax (02) 97392924
7263 Mon, 1 Nov 1999 19:51:33 -0800 [alt-beam] Re: Stray thought... "'beam@sgiblab.sgi.com'" Wilf Rigter You can do almost anything with a micro!
Remember that weaving is a pretty ancient art and early mechanized looms
were no smarter than beam bots. Part of beam fun is to explore some of
these basically mechanical solutions that could be scaled to very small size
(ie much smaller than a micro). For instance, how does H2O know to weave
those beautiful snowflake patterns without a micro?
enjoy
Wilf Rigter mailto:wilf.rigter@powertech.bc.ca
tel: (604)590-7493
fax: (604)590-3411
> -----Original Message-----
> From: michael.hirtle@ns.sympatico.ca [SMTP:michael.hirtle@ns.sympatico.ca]
> Sent: Monday, November 01, 1999 8:15 PM
> To: alt-beam@egroups.com
> Cc: 'beam@sgiblab.sgi.com'
> Subject: Re: [alt-beam] Re: Stray thought...
>
> I would recomend a microprossor for this job
>
> Wilf Rigter wrote:
>
> > A BEAM SLOTH - 2motor/4legged walker hanging upside down from 2 parallel
> > strings may work if the legs were equipped with hooks or eyes through
> which
> > the string was threaded. The gait (?) timing should be adjusted to be
> > resonant with the swinging strings. Next step - design a BEAM
> WEB-SPINNER
> > - a walker/spider building it's own net.
> >
> > Wilf Rigter mailto:wilf.rigter@powertech.bc.ca
> > tel: (604)590-7493
> > fax: (604)590-3411
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Phillip A. Ryals [SMTP:phillip@ryals.com]
> > > Sent: Monday, November 01, 1999 6:07 AM
> > > To: beam@sgiblab.sgi.com
> > > Subject: Stray thought...
> > >
> > > I've been thinking about it for a while, and thought I'd post this to
> the
> > > list. If anyone has any ideas, I'd be really happy to hear them.
> > >
> > > I've been thinking about a bot that would move by hanging from a
> string or
> > > wire strung between two points. I know the obvious lack of mobility
> would
> > > keep it from being terribly useful, but I'm still trying to work it
> out.
> > > Maybe an exercise in mechanics?
> > >
> > > Anyway, I'm just lost on how to drive the legs. I thought about some
> kind
> > > of rotary motion, like a wheel on top on the string, or legs attached
> to
> > > motors that just spin.... but I think that'd just be boring.
> > >
> > > So I'm looking for some way to make it "walk" along the string. Just
> like
> > > you'd do with your hands if you're hanging like that.
> > >
> > >
> > > Anyone?
> > >
> > > par
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Looking for the latest consumer electronic gadgets or computer
> > equipment? eBay has thousands of audio equipment, computer
> > games & accessories. You never know what you might find at eBay!
> > http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/1142
> >
> > -- Check out your eGroup's private Chat room
> > -- http://www.egroups.com/ChatPage?listName=alt-beam&m=1
>
>
7264 Mon, 01 Nov 1999 19:53:38 PST [alt-beam] Re: magnets beam@sgiblab.sgi.com "Timothy Flytcher" >Timothy Flytcher wrote:
>
> > Jim, I was being sarcastic... I never said any thing about heat. I don't
> > think heat really has much to do with it. I think that it is the
>surrounding
> > environment. Any magnet once magnetized will hold a field as long as it
>is
> > insolated but once it is in close contact with other ferrous objects
>and/or
> > magnetic fields it will transfer some of its field... thous loosing some
> > strength... In a motor that would be the armature... stationary or not.
> > if stationary then the initial burst of energy must overcome a
>magnetized
> > armature.. I think of it like an out of balance wheel being rolled down
>a
> > slight hill. The more amps the steeper the hill...
> > Timothy...
>
>Sorry, this is wrong.
>
>Most powerful magets come with 'keepers' that close the path of magnetic
>flux, to protect the magnet when stored.
Ok Bob, protect them from what???
>A magnet stuck to the front of your refrigerator does not loose any
>strenght
>in the process of sticking there, for months or years.
Yes it dose... try running a guise meter over a refrigerator door after you
have removed them...
>PM motors will loose efficiency if the armature becomes magnetized, which
>happens much quicker if the motor overheats, and then cools again (this is
>how
>many mangets are made in the first place).
This is how a few magnets are made...very few! it is simply too expensive!
Only end product magnets are shipped magnetized...I once worked for EB
making guitar pickups. I can't remember the composition of the material but
its qurie point was 530' a little high for the card stock that we used to
mount the windings...And yes guitar pick-ups loose there strength with time
and use... some say they mellow... I can and have reproduced this upon
request... :)
______________________________________________________
7265 Tue, 2 Nov 1999 14:51:49 +1100 (EST) [alt-beam] Re: aquabots - 'sealed' motor beam@corp.sgi.com (mailing list) Benjamin Edward Hitchcock ----- Forwarded message from Wilf Rigter -----
Using a light bulb to change buoyancy won't work since buoyancy is affected
by the displacement of water with a volume of lower density. So the rigid
glass bulb is the problem. A bladder filled with an incompressible substance
which changes volume and density as it is heated should work.
alright!
---
I love it! Using a lightbulb to change buoyancy! Fantastic! There is a
way to do this - put a partially inflated balloon around the lightbulb.
This will make the whole assembly watertight as well, and make a cool
coloured 'glow' when the device is on. Maybe you could use a magnetic
coil on the bottom of the cylinder attached to the mains, and have another
coil on the bottom of your bot. This would charge up a capacitor, and
coupled to a solar engine would make the bot sit on the bottom chanrging
up, then light its 'engine' and drift up to the stars!
VERY elegant.
Nice idea!
Ben
7266 Mon, 1 Nov 1999 19:51:55 -0800 [alt-beam] Re: Elementary, My Dear Watson... "'beam@sgiblab.sgi.com'" Wilf Rigter After doing a little Sherlock Holmes sleuthing around the archive =
(thanks
Zoz), this reminds me a lot of the exciting discussions in Feb, 99 =
such as
my own 2 bits worth:
http://www.egroups.com/group/alt-beam/704.html
Note the similarity of the FF circuit to the lower gif. Since the FF =
circuit
inputs are supposed to be driven from multiple other outputs through
multiple resistors, the 2 resistors to ground would appear to be =
redundant.
The basic principle of this "memory neuron" would seem to be the =
hysteresis
inherent in this design.=20
Does the Sci Am article you quote from here also have info on the
associative memories discussed in Feb?
regards
Wilf Rigter mailto:wilf.rigter@powertech.bc.ca
tel: (604)590-7493=20
fax: (604)590-3411
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Richard Caudle [SMTP:richard@cqc.com]
> Sent: Sunday, October 31, 1999 1:40 PM
> To: beam@sgiblab.sgi.com
> Subject: Re: Elementary, My Dear Watson...
>=20
> Here's the circuit description from the article.
> =A0
> =A0
> "FLIP-FLOP CIRCUIT is built from two saturable amplifiers.=A0 In a =
saturable
> amplifier, as the input=20
>=20
> =A0 [Wilf Rigter] ----8<----
>=20
> Does that help any?=A0 I guessing that the hookups are determined by
> whether you want the next one to be Excitatory or Inhibitory.=A0 Let =
me know
> if you need more info.
> =A0
> Richard << File: sciamflipflop.jpg >>=20
7267 Tue, 02 Nov 1999 15:12:31 +1100 [alt-beam] Re: aquabots - 'sealed' motor Senior Jacob Booth At 03:02 PM 11/2/99 +1000, you wrote:
>
>
>Well the problem with light bulbs are that there's a vacuum inside, so
>I don't think yell be getting much bouynacy out of them but I could be
>wrong!
>
I was under the idea that a vacuum was to hard to 'create' in most bulbs,
so instead they had inert gas in them (I think argon is popular). I am now
better informed about the light bulb idea as my thinking was incomplete...
Heat does change density, but only when the gas can expand. I'm not going
to get much expansion out of a glass bulb :). Now where did I put those PET
plastic light bulbs :)
PS I think that aquabots are replacing my dream of 'aerobots' (or whatever
you want to call them) as they still move in 3 dimensions, but things
happen at a more leisurely pace, and the ground isn't so hard. Plus... they
are much easier to keep 'up' above the ground, as you aren't usually
wasting energy to do so. Hmmm maybe that is why life originated in water!
Not that other theory based on availability of nutrients and organic
material, just that mother nature is intrinsically lazy!
------------------------------------------------------------------
Jacob Booth BIS, MCP Web http://www.its.mary.acu.edu.au/
IT Services Email j.booth@mary.acu.edu.au
Phone (02) 97392235 Fax (02) 97392924
7268 Tue, 02 Nov 1999 15:20:24 +1100 [alt-beam] Re: aquabots - 'sealed' motor Benjamin Edward Hitchcock Jacob Booth At 03:09 PM 11/2/99 +1000, you wrote:
>
>
>----- Forwarded message from Wilf Rigter -----
>Using a light bulb to change buoyancy won't work since buoyancy is affected
>by the displacement of water with a volume of lower density. So the rigid
>glass bulb is the problem. A bladder filled with an incompressible
>substance
>which changes volume and density as it is heated should work.
>
>alright!
>
>---
>
>I love it! Using a lightbulb to change buoyancy! Fantastic! There is a
>way to do this - put a partially inflated balloon around the lightbulb.
>This will make the whole assembly watertight as well, and make a cool
>coloured 'glow' when the device is on. Maybe you could use a magnetic
>coil on the bottom of the cylinder attached to the mains, and have another
>coil on the bottom of your bot. This would charge up a capacitor, and
>coupled to a solar engine would make the bot sit on the bottom chanrging
>up, then light its 'engine' and drift up to the stars!
>
>VERY elegant.
>
>Nice idea!
>
>Ben
Wow.. you paint a better picture in words than I imagined :) I did like the
side effect of the illumination. I realise it is a power hungry method, but
there are some tiny lightbulbs out there (remember the ones in cheap LCD
watches??). I think it would use less power than say a solenoid that moves
a diaphram or piston to change buoyancy.
I wish I was at home, making this thing to test it out. Anyone want to
donate a cell+goldcap? ;) I have heaps of components, but am still being
let down by a lack of solar cells and decent caps...
cheers
Jacob
------------------------------------------------------------------
Jacob Booth BIS, MCP Web http://www.its.mary.acu.edu.au/
IT Services Email j.booth@mary.acu.edu.au
Phone (02) 97392235 Fax (02) 97392924
7269 Mon, 1 Nov 1999 20:07:37 -0800 [alt-beam] Re: aquabots - 'sealed' motor "'beam@sgiblab.sgi.com'" Wilf Rigter Of course a vacuum has the lowest density of all and would be very buoyant
but incandescent lighbulbs are usually filled with a gas mixture.
Wilf Rigter mailto:wilf.rigter@powertech.bc.ca
tel: (604)590-7493
fax: (604)590-3411
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Senior [SMTP:kyled@cruzers.com]
> Sent: Monday, November 01, 1999 6:31 PM
> To: beam@sgiblab.sgi.com
> Subject: Re: aquabots - 'sealed' motor
>
> Well the problem with light bulbs are that there's a vacuum inside, so
> I don't think yell be getting much bouynacy out of them but I could be
> wrong!
>
> Jacob Booth wrote:
> >
> > I have a filter pump for my aquarium which has the coils in a sealed
> > plastic ring or tub. The armature is a multi-poled magnet also sealed in
> > plastic which 'floats' inside the plastic ring. I guess it works more
> like
> > a stepper motor (would need circuitry to do the job of the commutator)
> but
> > is perfectly watertight (well, close enough :). Another bonus is NO wear
> as
> > it uses no bearings. The combination of magnetic field and moving water
> > enables the armature (should this be just called a rotor?) to 'float'
> > inside the ring and rotate. It is designed to be fully submerged. I am
> > thinking of doing something like this as a proof of theory for a
> waterproof
> > motor for myself. I doubt anything home made would be very efficient at
> all
> > though. Does efficient matter when we have other things like water
> friction
> > to worry about? :)
> >
> > warning: bad ascii image below:
> >
> > -- || -- A: multi-poled rotor
> > || ---- || B: sealed coil assembly
> > || | A| || x: water filled void
> > || |__| ||
> > ||___x__||
> > |____B___|
> >
> > picture a film canister sized water filled void, and the rotor as the
> roll
> > of film size. I want to make a small one!
> >
> > Oh, and another thought... what about using a small light bulb for a
> > buoyancy device? would it make any difference on its own when turned on
> (eg
> > heat up the low pressure gas inside the bulb) compared to off? A bit
> power
> > hungry, but a different idea! Maybe if the gas space in the bulb is too
> > small it could be used to heat up a larger container of air for example.
> > Would it be better to expose the bulb outside the bot, or have it inside
> > the sealed airspace inside the bot? Anyone thought about this before or
> > tried it? let me know!
> >
> > Cheers
> > Jacob
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Jacob Booth BIS, MCP Web http://www.its.mary.acu.edu.au/
> > IT Services Email j.booth@mary.acu.edu.au
> > Phone (02) 97392235 Fax (02) 97392924
7270 Mon, 01 Nov 1999 23:29:36 -0500 [alt-beam] Re: aquabots - 'sealed' motor George Rix Depends. Some have gasses like Argon or Xenon in them (just to name a
couple). Xenon is usually used for flash bulbs, though.
Peace out!
Rob Rix
God knew what he was doing when he deprived man of wings.
> From: Senior
> Organization: CompuPro
> Reply-To: beam@sgiblab.sgi.com
> Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 19:31:13 -0700
> To: beam@sgiblab.sgi.com
> Subject: Re: aquabots - 'sealed' motor
>
> Well the problem with light bulbs are that there's a vacuum inside, so
> I don't think yell be getting much bouynacy out of them but I could be
> wrong!
Home