Alt-BEAM Archive

Message #05112



To: "beam@sgiblab.sgi.com" beam@sgiblab.sgi.com
From: "Dan Larson" dlarson@citilink.com
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 10:21:40 -0600
Subject: [alt-beam] Re: Someting funny with the subject line? was Something funny with the ...


On Thu, 8 Jul 1999 08:10:36 EDT, JVernonM@aol.com wrote:

>In a message dated 7/8/99 3:17:20 AM Eastern Daylight Time, rix.g@bmts.com
>writes:
>
>> carry around a solar powered thingy, even a flag spinner, and now you have
>> > a real robot.
>> A 'REAL' robot? IMHO, the task of a photovore is to stay alive.
>This is a lesson in philosophy. Debating what a robot really is may be to
>subjective to come to a consensus. I would call my satellite dish a robot. I
>can program it to come on automatically, move to a certain satellite, lock
>onto a transponder, and shut off at a predetermined time. Now, it doesn't
>look a bit like Robby the robot, and I don't really consider it one in the
>purist sense, but it is one nonetheless. We are actually surrounded by
>robots. In our cars, coffee makers, and microwaves.

The definition of robot does indeed seem to vary widely,
do if I may:

*IMHO*, my definition of a robot is a device that functions
autonomously without *human* control. Coffee makers and
satellite dishes are merely *extensions* of the human. They
are all controlled by us and react in response to a chain
of events initiated by our thoughts. The thought filters
through our biological bodies, through mechanical and
electronic systems, and finally becomes reality when
the coffee drips into the pot (for some into the throat ).

For me a true robot would initiate actions based on the
thoughts of its *own* mind. If you want to consider
a microcore a very small "mind" go right ahead. After all,
we are involved in a philosophical discussion here.

IMHO, we don't have any *true* robots yet. For now I'll
leave the job of creating robots to humans. But from the
point that they are turned on, they ought to be totally
autonomous. Requiring power from humans make them no less
autonomous than buying food from farmers makes humans less
autonomous. The main problem I see is that we have come
no where near any sort of cognitive abilities in our
"robot" as of yet, with a few rare exceptions.

To tell you the truth, I don't know if I even *want* to see
robots thinking independently and acting out their own
thoughts.


>What hasn't been realized
>yet is the mechanical slave or companion.

Best kind of robot to have!

Perhaps you might consider factory robots to be "salves"
of a sort.....

>Now, Mr. Tilden gave us a new
>definition. A robot is an automaton that survives for it's own purpose. I
>think Mr. Brooks would say a robot is a simulation of a human being. Fact is,
>they are all of these things. Having said that, it comes down to whether you
>like strawberry or chocolate. It's a matter of personal taste and opinion.

Exactly.... As it *should* be.

>The robots, particularly those built in the BEAM philosophy, really don't
>care what we call them. It's all highly subjective, and the argument may be
>counter productive if taken to extremes.
>Jim
>

Personally, I have not built a BEAM bot yet. I probably will not either.
I hang out here because of the very different problem solving approaches
used by BEAM. Its has been very beneficial for me to look at my CPU
robot behaviors and functions from a different perspective.

I think that with the eventual shrinkage of Nv and Nu circuits allowing
thousands or even millions of them to be arranged in complex networks
has a lot of potential. But for now, a combination of CPU and BEAM
seems like a good thing.

I've been thinking of making chains of
microcontrollers instead of chains of Nvs. A small microcontroller
can be use to make more complex neurons. This is not so impractical
as it may sounds. There are microcontrollers with 25+ bytes of ram
and 512+ words of program + A/D converter that fit into a single
8-pin DIP! They can run on an internal RC oscillator so 6 I/O
pins are available.

IMVHO, BEAM should be limited to just relaxation oscillators.


Dan




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