Alt-BEAM Archive

Message #00407



To: beam@corp.sgi.com
From: TurtleTek@aol.com
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 23:54:25 EST
Subject: [alt-beam] Re: question


Greetings List,

After reading the "question" thread (which I find very interesting, more on
that later), I've noticed many mentions of the "cybug". Most of these
mentions have been comparing the cybug to the photovore. Sort of "conventional
robots vs BEAM". Well, as I see it, isn't the cybug BEAM? The meaning of
BEAM is so very vague and I don't think it's much of a stretch to include the
cybug under BEAM. Why not?
It's not solar powered? So what, most walkers aren't.
"But walkers have nv nets", you say. Big deal.
"Cybugs aren't self-sufficiant". Neither are walkers, they need their cell
charged every now and then.

Cybugs don't use programming or a CPU. They can "feed" themselves. So, unless
the requirements for being BEAM are as follows:
Must be solar powered, if not then must use nv net.
Then we can just go ahead and slap a BEAM lable on the cybug too, no? Any
thoughts on this are welcome.

And now, about the "question" thread...

>> What do you mean by REAL WORLD?
> mean real robots. Autonomous, seemingly sentiant, and possessing the ability
>to interact with humans on a level that produces meaningful relationships.

*chokes on drink, spitting it out all over the monitor* What?! Perhaps the
reason you find so many faults in BEAM is that you don't quite grasp the idea.
We're not out to make a R2D2 or Lt. Data, nor do we expect to in the near
future (or distant future). Right about now we have robots that are like
protists and far from even being like any form of animal with a brain, let
alone things even seeming like humans. This isn't a huge goverment funded
robotics (AI) project such as Cog or Cyc, BEAM is a hobby based on the idea
that robots should be autonomous and don't have to be complex. Just a hobby.
Either I missed something or you haven't quite done your homework on BEAM.
Neither one of those options are ones I find likely. I just find myself saying
to myself "eh..what is this guy thinking?"

>This can be construction, hazardous employment, servitude, entertainment,
>pets, household maintenance, this is limited only by your imagination.

BEAM robots are currently being used for entertainment and pets. The only
other thing I can imagine them doing is exploring. Hazardous employment,
servitude, maintenance, all not BEAM. Well...maybe maintenance (Hey, maybe I
should strap a toothbrush onto ProtoBot....hmm 8)

>Perhaps this is my own interpratation.

I guess so. Everyone has their own interpretation but I must say I find yours
a little far fetched..

>I basicly believe we (builders) are attracted
>to the idea of human created artificial life.

That's why many of us got into BEAM, the idea of artifical life.

>Being alive entails much more
>than being able to walk over sand dunes.

Yeah..being alive entails the following:
1)Being composed of cells. (our bots will never meet this...I don't even agree
with this requirement of life.)
2)Organization of self
3) Energy use
4)Response to environment
5) Growth (again..I don't think we'll ever build a growing bot)
6) Reproduction (bots don't reproduce on their own but I see this as a reality
in the future...)
7) Adaptation (adaptations only happen through reproduction)

Hmm..I don't see "Human interaction" or "Sentience" up there.. I do, however,
see response to environment. Before we get into a robot that communicates
with us we have to have it at least be able to "walk on sand dunes"! Again,
this is a basic concept of BEAM. Another BEAM fundemental is the idea that we
can build robots out of stuff we find and/or can get easly. BEAM is not a kit-
based hobby. That seems to be another thing you fail to grasp.

I don't want to seem too challenging but I just had to say something. Most of
the things you (Jim) say make sense, all except what I mentioned above.


On to other topics.

About my website. Yep, looks like its going to be another week before I open
it. Sorry guys, I just want to make it good from the beginning. So expect it
out next saturday.

-TurtleTek
"Yu, shall I tell you what knowledge is? When you know a thing,
say that you know it. When you do not know a thing, admit you
do not know it. This is knowledge."
- K'ung-fu Tzu (Confucius)







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