Alt-BEAM Archive
Message #00398
To: richfile@rconnect.com
From: JVernonM@aol.com
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1999 20:11:46 EST
Subject: [alt-beam] Re: question
In a message dated 2/14/99 7:20:42 PM Eastern Standard Time,
richfile@rconnect.com writes:
> And to broaden the availability of BEAM only components that are limited to
> > BEAM only applications, and therefore extremely overpriced in the BEAM
> only
> > tradition of whipping together yet another lucrative hobby supply market.
> > These things will NEVER be real world robots. They make for extremely
> > expensive toys at best, and unique novelties at minimum. REAL robots are
> > coming sir, and they are not BEAM.
>
> I'm not going to go into detail, but BEAM has it's uses. I think certain
> forms
> of BEAM may mesh with CPU based controllers. I don't believe BEAM is a "
> limited"
> medium. It's just one part of a whole. TV, personal computers, they all
were
> novelties and expensive toys in their beginnings. BEAM is a hobby. I'd call
> model airplanes novelties and expensive toys, and they have a wide enough
> user
> base for custom parts, and that has spilled into robotics. It probably
won't
> be
> long before robotics get's a dedicatied industry for custom parts. They are
> slowly but surely getting a user base. BEAM is a nice start, In my opinion.
> CPU
> bots are great, but you need to learn a programming language, and to tell
> you
> the truth, I think BEAM and CPUs will work nicely together. I'm going to be
> expirimenting with such a system on Quadrapod, later on after I have the
> BEAM
> circuitry operating. I have 9 walking gaits all with fixed hardware!
>
> > i.e. BEAM costs
> > more. The really devious part is you don't realize that until after
you've
> > spent about 3-400 bucks on kits, motors, and parts to delve into
> > scratchbuilts. Then suddenly you realize the best your going to get is
> very
> > expensive toys. It's called bait and switch, and it's not right.
>
> And I don't know what all this bull about BEAM being so expensive is! I can
> build a scratch built walker for under $60 with reverser, Under $100 with a
> turning mechanism that can seek light. A LOT of people are starting from
> scratch. They have no tools, etc. I've heard people complaining that BEAM
is
> expensive thapent this uch on a multimeter and this much on a soldering
> station
> and this and that. Those costs are all standard to get into anything
> electronic!so, don't forget that minor extra required for CPU based robots.
> A
> chip programmer, a COMPUTER!!! I know people who don't have a computer and
> just
> use the school computers. I'm sure they appriciate a Basic Stamp II
> requiring a
> computer. BEAM requires a scketch on paper and basic tools. Some scratch
> parts
> and you have a very basirobot,a nd Like I said, there's more you can do
with
> $100 than many people let up! I guess it might be the fact that I've got
> expirience and know how to find a good deal, or build it right the first
> time.
> Who knows, but the thing is, that I can build a 5 motor walker with PLENTY
> of
> functions for under $200. The motors were the most expensive parts. $17
each.
>
> Still, that's far less than youare proclaiming. And again, beat the devious
> extra of adding a whole computer to program a tiny little chip! And don't
> talk
> about building programmers or stuff like that, cause remember, a beginner
> probably doesn't want to bother with the hassle, if they even knew how! As
> for
> kits, there simply isn't a wide enough userbase for massive bulk, and
> therefore,
> the things will be a little more expensive. BEAM is new after all!
>
> > Or, I guess I could try to build a BEAM
> > walker that CAN turn.
>
> You mean like some of the ones I'm working on??? (:
>
> > Sincerely,
> > Jim
> > JVernonM@aol.com
> > PS. Could someone tell me what happened to the BEAM gospel on feedback,
it
> > seems to be reversing itself.
> > How about the "Principa Robotica" I'm still waiting for those real world
> robot
> > applications.
> > What about a bot with more than 25 neurons, seeing how you need at least
> 400
> > or so to get a bot with the brains of an earth worm.
> > Never mind, I'll just make another symet, and pay my tythe.
>
> There are diferent forms of feedback, many used on both CPU and BEAM. I
wish
> I
> had more info on the more BEAMish ones. I too wish for principa robotica to
> come
> out. I'd love to read the information. I'm working on designs up to 16 or
20
> neurons (depends on the final design) One is 6 Nv and 8 Nu neurons. I've
got
> lots of ideas. And one is to make a giant Neuron bread board. Basicly, i'd
> have
> anray of Nv neurons with breadboard style terminals to interconnect them in
> diferent ways. Could be a nice design tool??? I'll probably wait on that
one,
> at
> least till I start the larger robots.
>
> Personaly, I think BEAM has little use other than art or toys, at least
> right
> now, but I think BEAM will find it's way into low level parts of robots
with
> more complex CPU controllers someday. That's my opinion anyway.
> --
I agree with most of what you say. I still think BEAM starts to become more
expensive per behavior the more complex the design becomes, eventually
surpassing other methods in cost. Especially when reconfiguration is involved.
As far as 5 motor walkers being less complicated and less expensive than like
bots built from basic stamps, I'm not so sure. Yes, you do need a computer.
But, that's not really an issue to builders since most of us already had one
for other reasons.
Sincerely,
Jim
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